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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
373
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Posted - 2012.11.28 20:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:Berendas wrote:Caldari are fine. They have been fine (overpowered in some cases). Caldari-exclusive pilots seem to have a persecution complex about being a bad PVP race, and they are ofc dead wrong. I fly all 4 races in subcap PVP and about half of what I end up flying is Caldari. Yeah those Raven and Rokh fleets are all the rage!
At last check PL was actually doing quite well with Rokhs post crucible. Also why is an HML nerf, a nerf to one of the 2 launcher types bonused on the drake, removing the ship from combat? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
379
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 21:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:My Tengu was doing 113km before patch, now it is doing 70km and less DPS.
While 113 was a bit overkill, so is the nerf. I can confirm the new change is discouraging and a bit of a reach considering missiles are on the low end of the DPS pool as it is unless you have them ALL relevant skills maxed to 5. Luckily, I can fly 3 and 1/2 races to perfection. Your max skill tengu is still workable. 70km is not much lower than the AC Mach. The Mach does 2x the dps, but also harder to speed tank. Btw, I'd imagine that 3 and 1/2 races include Winmatar? So you're good. The people who really got butchered are noob mission runners with drakes. Go into help channel in game right now, and you'll see them "seeking help" for not breaking the tank of a cruiser rat. CCP hates noobs/new customers...
Lots of drake runners doing level 4's but not so many Hurricane/Myrmadon/Harbinger lvl 4 runners out there I'd bet. In fact the people mentioning the Hurricane nerf never complained about reduced lvl 4 capabilities. Apparently CCP decided caldari new pilots would be better on the same level as other races new BC pilots. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
379
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 21:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
lovatus wrote:
the hurricane nerd still let them something to work with though because projectile weapons got a reduction in pwg requirements
Artillery requirements, yes. 425 AC + 1600 plate fits or some 220 AC + 2 med neut + 1600 plate fits not so much. Also none of these were PvE fits and the cane even before not a lvl 4 go to for newer pilots. Tengu pilots realistically should have the skills to get the most out of their launchers to begin with and have a bonus to make HAM's more workable should they go that route. In fact I'd like to know from a tengu pilot if that does work. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
379
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 21:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ocih wrote:
This is another one of those perpetuated myths. Drakes doing level 4 missions was never popular. It was possible to tank the mission with a drake for a longer time period than other ships but completing the mission was never practical in a Drake.
I'd be willing to bet the use of Drakes is more prevalent than you believe, though almost exclusively among newer, non-multiboxing players to do lvl 4's solo while waiting on the necessary isk and/or skills to reasonably be able to upgrade, which was enabled by the tank which remains intact and the DPS which till today counted as barely passable.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
380
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 21:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
lovatus wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:lovatus wrote:from what ive experienced so far, the missile changes have been REALLY bad.
my drake has gone from putting out 500 damage per volley to less than 300, and with the unchanged cycle times on the launchers you can now get tanked by cruisers pretty easily. range has gone from 60km to around 47KM, essentially making heavy missiles unusable as a weapon as everyone else can either out range out damage or fire faster than you. 500 damage per volley? WTF? Are you grouping your weapons? Someone else in here talked about having 4 SPRs in the lows on a Drake? WTF? That is way too much tank for an L3. Learn to EVE. im a low skilled player.  and whats an SPR?
Shield Power Relay, increases passive shield regen. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
380
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 23:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
lovatus wrote:Dorian Wylde wrote:sabre906 wrote:
You sound as if HMs do more dps than short range guns, when in fact, they do less dps than long range guns. That's before exp radius and exp velocity were taken into account, which are the real nerfs.
..
Yeah, that's not at all what I said. I'm pointing out why people are complaining. HM's should do less damage than short range weapons, because they are a long range weapon.They do slightly less (if your numbers are even correct) than long range turrets because turrets can miss. There are only 2 ways you will miss with a missile: you're shooting at something too far away, or your target is moving faster than the missile. the hole in your logic is that hml's also got a 25% range reduction, putting them at a rather distinct disadvantage compared to the other long range weapon groups
They fall toward the end falloff range for turrets now after skills are applied, and missile skills give greater range affect helping achieve this. they maintain consistent output, unlike the other systems in falloff and using faction ammo they beat T2 long range ammo for raw DPS output. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
380
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 23:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Silk daShocka wrote:
Heavy Beam Laser II Using aurora ammo 9.6 dps
250MM Railgun II Using Spike ammo 9.11 dps
Heavy Missile Launcher II using 12.9 dps using faction ammo
Is what I get using Pyfa that is suposed to be updated for Retribution. Either my client isn't accurate, or you are using short range ammo and comparing it to HML. I'm fairly certain the short range ammo on these turrets has range that's comparable to HAMs, not HMLs
If the case is that my client is inaccurate, taking 10% off of the figure above should give us the current damage.
90% of 12.9 = 11.61
Still better than it's peers. Let's not mention the advantage that missiles have as targets get closer to your ship, should that situation arise.
I'm not sure what math y'all are using. Here's what I'm getting.(unbonused) HML II + Fury = 14.4 dps @ 14.1km HBL II + Gleam = 17 @ 6+8km 250mm II + Javelin = 16 @ 7.2+12km 720mm II + Quake = 13 @ 6+18km With long range ammo HML II + Navy = 12.6 @ 28.1km HBL II + Aurora = 10 @ 43+8 250mm II + Spike = 9 @ 52+12 720mm II + Tremor = 8 @ 43+18 Based on this, fury is slightly second to last in high dps, and second to last in range With ranged ammo, Navy is ahead in dps, but WAY behind on range. Almost half the range of other long range ammo. If anything nerf navy hml damage to t1 damage, but cut the range nerf. That would sound resonably fair considering we're at the bottom of the pack in 3 out of 4 sections.
No bonus comparisons favor turrets for range as their skills only bonus part of the range and do not complement each other. Both missiles skills affect the entire range and do complement each other. Also consider damage degradation due to falloff, which missiles do not have. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
391
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Now that I have the new EFT. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24359The numbers on the tengu aren't as bad as you'd think. a tengu with 6x hml II and 4x CN BCU goes from 715 dps to 678 dps with fury, which isn't too bad. However, it loses range down to 70.8km from 113.9km. Wait...looking at it further it looks like something may be wrong with the new eft. From what I understood of the patch notes fury and precision were supposed to have the same ranges, however, precision drops to 47.2 km, so i'm wondering if eft isn't messed up.
Fury range was reduced to 75% of the new T1 range, which is still ~50% farther than Precision IIRC. |
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